By Pam Victor
[“Geeking Out with…” is a series of interviews with well-known, highly experienced improvisers. It’s a chance to talk about stuff that might interest hardcore, improv dorkwads like Pam. Check out all the interviews here.]
 |
| Peter S. Kim |
Peter S. Kim is many things. He is a comedian. He is
an improviser and an actor and a comedy writer and a stand-up (comedian and
guy). He is smart. He is ambitious. He is hard-working and hard-partying. He is
a New Yorker and a San Franciscan and now a Chicagoan. He is gay. He is a kind
human. He is a man of Korean descent. Peter S. Kim is very talented. And
earlier this year, Peter was one of the comedic actors awarded a spot in the
first program of Second City’s Bob
Curry Fellowship.
Named for Second City’s first African-American
Mainstage performer who took the stage in 1966, the Bob Curry Fellowship is one
of the many ways Second City (Chicago)
strives to make improvisation and sketch comedy accessible to minorities and
underserved populations through their Outreach & Diversity
program. (They also specifically cultivate multicultural talent, put on Diversity Week, offer
scholarships, and provide targeted performance opportunity on its stages with shows
like Urban Twist and R.E.A.C.H., the Risky, Eclectic,
Artists Comedy Hour.) Peter S. Kim was among the 150 applicants and
86 auditioners vying for one of the sixteen spots in their newest program, a tuition-free, eight-week series of classes that
provides training for actors of color in improvisation, sketch writing, and
acting as well as opportunities for mentorship – in effect, priming these
select comedians for a place on the stages at Second City and, if all goes well,
eventually on a television screen near you.
Personally, I couldn’t be happier for these sixteen
actors as well as the hundreds who hopefully will follow in their footsteps. I have
written before about the need for diversity in improvisation ... and I'm afraid I might be writing about it again in the future. As much as I
adore funny, 20-year-old white guys – I really do! (and I mean that in
a non-creepy way) - I think this art form I love so much will benefit
multi-dimensionally by a greater variety of faces and voices and perspectives
and life experiences. Peter S. Kim is one of those unique voices. And I’m personally
delighted in his success because Peter and I are friends who first met at iO’s
summer intensive in Chicago in 2012. So, obviously, I am completely biased … but
I think if you see Peter perform – at iO with Big Judy or at Second City with Urban Twist or with the crazy-talented indie team Stranger or at an
open mic night – you’ll easily see what I
mean. And why I wanted to geek out with him about his experiences in the Bob
Curry Fellowship.
*
PAM
VICTOR: Congratulations on your Bob Curry Fellowship showcase
show! It sounds like it was very successful. I’d love to hear all
about the show.
PETER
KIM: Thank you! It was an
unbelievable night. The E.T.C. [Stage at Second City] was packed with friends,
family, industry people, and the crowd was electric. It was really nice to be
able to perform for a crowd that supportive. There were sixteen fellows, split
into two groups and two acts. We showcased
 |
| The 2014 Bob Curry Fellows and their teachers [Photo credit Anjelica Diaz, courtesy of Second City] |
PAM: That's
amazing. It seems like it was a perfect culmination of a very successful
program. And it sounds like you felt very supported by your teammates too.
PETER: Very much so. The cast was a dream to work alongside.
Honestly, for the first time since I moved to Chicago, I felt like I was with a
family and a home.
PAM: That's
surprising for me to hear because you've been (and still are) involved in some
pretty remarkable groups.
PETER: I have been with a lot of great ensembles, but I’m
usually the token Asian guy or token gay guy on an all white, straight improv
team. It was nice to be around other minorities. The Bob Curry program was
pretty gay ... four out of six guys were gay.
PAM: Looks like
they’re overdue for some lesbian action at Second City.
PETER: Haha!
PAM: I'm interested in hearing about how
being the "token" has felt to you.
PETER: Being the token Asian wasn't ever something I thought
about until I moved to Chicago. I grew up in New York City and lived in San Francisco
for five years, and both cities
and comedy communities are pretty well integrated. Chicago is the most
segregated town I’ve lived in.
While
I have no problem being the token Asian or gay guy, it was refreshing being
around people like me in the program. Being able to talk like me. It really
helped me fine-tune my comedic voice.
PAM: Is it
because you have a different frame of reference than your typical white,
20-year-old dude?
PETER: I think that's some of it yeah ... I mean we
all have the same human experience, but I started comedy when I was 27, so I've
always felt like I was "catching up."
PAM: Ha.
You're talking to the lady who started comedy at 35. But, yeah, I hear you.
PETER: Haha! I don’t think its ever too late, at least I
hope so! You bring life onto the stage, real shit.
 |
| Stephanie Anderson and Peter S. Kim in their two-person solo show Pas de Deux: A Comedy Solo Duet |
PAM: You've
done some pretty fucking amazing catching up, Peter. You seem to approach your
comedy training like you would a serious, full-time job - I really admire that.
You’re 150% committed to getting all the training, hearing all the different
views you can, and taking every performance opportunity.
PETER: Thank you. I do take my comedy seriously; I quit a
100K+ job in Silicon Valley for this, so I try to put as much of my energy into
it as I would any other "career."
It's
hard to motivate yourself to write, get up at open mics, rehearse, and do shows
day in and day out when you don't have a boss. And I (like most comedians)
default to lazy, so I have to set small goals for myself and meet them.
PAM: Tell me about your training in comedy so far. You’ve done iO,
Annoyance, Second City Conservatory ...
PETER: I studied with the Upright Citizen’s Brigade in New York.
Then I moved to San Francisco and started my own theatre company - I wanted UCB
to exist
in San Francisco because I loved it so much. I then moved to Chicago to do the iO summer
intensive, where I met you, and fell in love with the city.
 |
| Pam and Peter (iO summer intensive 2012) |
I
took classes at Annoyance at
the same time, which I LOVED! Then I took conservatory at Second City. I kinda
packed everything in because I thought I would only be here temporarily.
PAM: Oh, and you then went through all the rest of the levels at iO Theatre too.
PETER: Yup. And I took some writing classes at Second City
and did some music conservatory classes too, but it all became too much so I
had to scale back a bit. I plan to finish the music and writing programs
sometime in the future. I love taking classes and getting notes. I just wish I
had enough money to take them.
PAM: You’ve clearly been in a lot of
classes and theaters. Have your race or sexual orientation ever been an issue
in your comedy career?
PETER: No, not that I can tell. If anything, it's helped for
diversity. Chicago's thirsty for diversity.
PAM: That's why I'm interested in
really digging into why the Bob Curry Fellowship experience was so significant
for you. Forgive me like sounding like a dumb-dumb … I mean, I know what it
feels like to be the "only" something on a team (only mom, only one
over 40, only woman, etc.) But I don't think of you as an Asian performer ...
Damn. It's hard for me to get to the crux of my
question without sounding like an ignorant racist. It's hard to talk about race
without sounding racist sometimes! (Maybe I should just ask you about whether
you’re a top or a bottom.)
PETER: I’m a bottom.
PAM: Me too!
PETER: But that's exactly it. I never thought of myself as
an Asian performer, so I quietly assimilated into being a white performer
who just looks Asian. But the Bob Curry program let me be me, a Gay Asian man
who has Gay Asian man things to say.
I didn't
need to "blend in" and be a raceless, faceless character named
"Jeremy" in a scene. I was able to fully play me and use my voice,
and that was really empowering and liberating as a comedic performer.
PAM: I bet.
PETER: It was like I was doing stand-up onstage. Because
when I do stand-up, it's all about me and how I’m different and weird.
PAM: How did they
achieve that Second City? Was that something that was focused on in particular?
Or did that evolve naturally?
PETER: The Bob Curry program really encouraged us to highlight
our differences instead of hiding them. Dionna [Griffin-Irons], the director of
Outreach and Diversity would always tell us, "Only you can tell your
story, so tell it here."
PAM: Do you
think that objective needs to be a part of all improv theater educational
curricula?
PETER: For comedy, yes. We write what we know, so it's
important to get in touch with and scrutinize what we truly know and what our
spin on the world is.
The
Bob Curry Program was led by Matt Hovde, the Artistic Director of the Second City
Training Center and resident stage director. Each week he gave us different
skills and tools that would help prepare us to be hired by Second City and
other professional theaters, like improv, hosting, working archive materials,
classic acting techniques, satire workshops … you name it. It was the most
practical training I've ever had.
PAM: Can you go
into a little more detail about the curriculum and the exercises and theories you
found most useful? I'm especially interested in the material covered that is
unique to that program.
PETER: We met two days a week for eight weeks. Matt
Hovde was at the helm of the curriculum, which was completely original and
tailor-made to us. We reviewed improv, specifically working on sets you would
do at the end of a TourCo or resident stage show (the third act [of a Second
City show]). We worked on hosting and playing classic short form games that
Second City companies play. We had workshops on watching and writing satire the
Second City way. There were Q & A sessions with producers, directors, and
actors from the Mainstage. Each
department from Second City (BizCo,
BoatCo,
theatricals, etc.) came in and gave us more clarity about the different jobs at
Second City, what they expect and need. Even Andrew Alexander [co-owner/CEO and Executive Producer of Second City] spent some time with us and talked about how important the Diversity Program is to Second City's future. We also had Second City alum Aaron Freeman come in and
take off all his clothes onstage and talk to us about his experiences being a
minority onstage in the 80's.
PAM: Wait.
What? Can you connect those dots for me?
PETER: Haha!
Yeah, apparently Bob Curry used to take off his clothes onstage all the time. I
guess Aaron Freeman was trying to make a point. It was shocking at first, but I
think we all got used to the nudity.
PAM: Wow.
Ok ... I was trying to get tips for other theaters that might want to offer
their own diversity programs. But that might be one tip too many.
 |
| Aaron Freeman (presumably fully clothed) |
PETER: Hahaha! Yeah. He actually gave us one huge
piece of advice: MAKE FRIENDS - do good work and be nice to everyone. Because Second
City is all about the amazing people and the network that will always stay your
family.
PAM: Was
there a mentoring element in the Bob Curry program?
PETER: For sure! Hovde, Beth Kligerman (Director of
Talent and Talent Development) and Dionna Griffin-Irons
(Director of Outreach and Diversity) made it clear that their doors were always
open and that we could sit and chat with them whenever. We also spent a good
amount of time reviewing archival scenes and staging them since it’s such a
huge part of the TourCo
and BoatCo shows.
PAM: Plus with
all those personal contacts with each department, you became known to the
directors, and that's always good going into your next audition.
PETER: For sure! I mean it was an unprecedented amount of
exposure. It really felt like they were all our cheerleaders.
PAM: That's
really incredible access and skills-building. It sounds like all those skills
were very practical and extremely specific to succeeding at Second City. Is
that correct?
PETER: Correct. It was a professional training program.
Also, they had a three-on-one interview with each one of us before the program
started to talk about our strengths and some growth opportunities. And this
Friday [a week after the final showcase show], we'll have a postmortem
interview to discuss how the program and show went and continued contact and
mentoring moving forward.
PAM: I suppose
many of those skills translate to other theaters, but it's interesting that
their program is so specific. I guess that's what they know best. And they're
cultivating you particular individuals to succeed at Second City. Damn, Peter.
Did you realize what a huge opportunity this was when you auditioned?
PETER: I knew it was a big deal but wasn't sure what it
would be exactly. I was overwhelmed at how big a deal it became, especially
when they announced the partnership with NBC at the showcase.
PAM: I was going
to ask about that. Tell me how that figures into the structure of the program.
PETER: NBC Universal is a strategic partner with the
Diversity and Outreach program. They're supporting the program financially and
cultivating talent.
PAM: Jay-sus.
PETER: I know it sounds corny, but I feel so incredibly
blessed to have been given this opportunity.
PAM: You are blessed. And you deserve it too.
PETER: I'm really impressed by Second City and their
execution of Diversity and Outreach. I've seen it at other theaters, but it's
usually a free class here and there. Second City's program takes diversity
seriously and equips minority talent with every tool and opportunity possible
to help even the playing field, which is tough because, institutionally, comedy has been straight, white, and 20's forever.
A
lot of white people came up to me during the fellowship and mentioned,
"Damn I'm so jealous. I wish there was a Bob Curry Fellowship for white
people" which pisses me off ‘cuz that shows they just don’t get it.
PAM: Expound
please. Are you saying that every class is a Bob Curry Fellowship for white
people?
PETER: The entire world
is a Bob Curry Fellowship for white people.
Jerry
Seinfeld recently got into some controversy about not having minority comics on
his web series, and he mentioned that he doesn’t care about color, that if
you're funny, that all that matters. What white people don’t understand is that
the stages, screen, and media show a disproportionate amount of white people. Sure,
money is a real issue why minorities might not take $300 improv classes, but we
also don't ever consider comedy as even an option because we don’t see people
like us represented. Look at every stage at UCB, Groundlings, Second City,
iO, and every comedy sitcom on TV. 90% are white, 90% of show runners,
directors, and producers are white.
PAM: White men.
PETER: That's the institutional privilege that my white
contemporaries don't ever understand because ever since they can remember, this
is just what the world looks like.
People
say, "It should just be meritocracy, we're all on the same playing field,"
but it's just not true. And I get angry when rich, white kids who's parents
paid their way through theatre school get sour about a fellowship that's been
20+ years in the making.
PAM: What I
hear you saying is that getting this leg-up on the competition in programs like
the Bob Curry one equalizes the playing field a little bit so at least you're
starting on the same level. Is that correct?
PETER: Kinda, yeah. It's NOT a level playing field, but at
least it helps. At least we're making noise and decision makers are taking
notice.
That’s
the thing about institutionalized racism - it's not an active hate or prejudice,
so most white people claim ignorance. We're so quick to forget that even into
the 60's and 70's school were segregated. That's not that long ago.
Sorry,
I got kinda heated there.
PAM: I
understand. This subject is important to talk about, and I love you and your
passion. That gas is needed to keep your tank running for the long haul. I
guess that feeling, shared between all of you, is another important
outcome of the program.
PETER: Even in the Bob Curry program, it was
fourteen Black people, me, and a Hispanic guy. So even within a program
tailored to minorities, I felt like a minority.
PAM: Do you think
Asian performers face specific challenges right now?
PETER: I don’t actively think about it a lot, but when
I think about the lack of Asians in comedy, Second City, SNL, it makes me
really angry.
PAM: For
good reason. It sure would be nice to see an Asian face on SNL, wouldn’t it?
(Particularly yours!)
PETER: At the start of the program, one of the
directors told us to go research archive scenes where people who look like us
are writing in their voice. And I was like, “Um ... there's NEVER been an Asian
man on a resident stage.” The only Asian man in sketch I can recall is Bobby
Lee from MadTV, and he came up through stand-up.
PAM: Huh. That's crazy. With this whole dust-up about getting more
African-American women into the ranks (and about time!), I've been thinking a
lot about that issue of the lack of Asian comedians represented. It's time for that too.
PETER: You
know what's interesting, Pam?
PAM: No. What's interesting,
Peter?
PETER: When I first started improv, I desperately
tried to downplay my race and sexual orientation. I wanted to blend in with my
straight, white, male counterparts and be as good as them, even better because
I clearly looked different. What the Bob Curry Fellowship made me realize is
that I need to use my ethnicity and orientation as my unique voice.
PAM: That
IS interesting, Peter. I'd love to hear more.
PETER: I guess in life, I also stopped identifying as
an Asian man, and I just tried to get by as an American man. But that's such a
huge part of me that I wasn't acknowledging, almost so that others wouldn't
recognize it as well. That’s what I mean about this fellowship being empowering.
PAM: I
think these thoughts, realizations, and discussions must be a result of the
program. Just being in the same room as each other, sharing the same
frustrations, comparing notes and experiences. You become part of a community,
which is a powerful thing. And instrumental for long overdue change.
PETER: Absolutely. It gave me permission to say yes to
myself and stop hiding my voice and start blaring it out loud. I'm sick and
tired of assimilation. I’m DONE.
PAM: Bravo,
brother.
I'm smiling over here.
PETER: The public and my peers can take me as I am or
be left in the dust.
PAM: What
do you think that will look like onstage? How has your performing changed
already?
PETER: I’m not sure if it changes much externally. It’s
not like I’m gonna all of a sudden start playing Asian archetypes. Not that
there are that many besides shy quiet, nerd. But internally, it's giving me the
power to play whatever the fuck I want, how I want it.
When
I started five years ago, I was always so afraid that people would make me the
dry cleaner guy or Chinese delivery guy, but what I’m realizing is that those
guys actually exist. My dad is a dry cleaner for fuck's sake! And I can play a
dry cleaner and be a complex, layered character. I don’t have to be afraid of
playing a stereotype ‘cuz it's actually my job to play that "stereotype,"
then break it, and
show people that we're more than just that. It’s like when Black people are
named "Tyrone" onstage and expected to be a thug. These guys do exist,
but that thug can also be in an existential crisis or struggle with weight
issues.
I wanna
stop being afraid of white people's expectations and do exactly what I want and
what I find hilarious.
PAM: That's
pretty much my whole, selfish interest in having more minorities of every stripe onstage. I
want to have more than just “Jeremys” up there. I think that kind of
dimensionality will benefit us ALL as well as bring the art form up to a whole
new level.
PETER: Agree.
PAM: I've
been playing with mostly white characters for a dozen years now. I'd love to share a
scene with an interesting character of color who has a whole other tool belt of
cultural touchpoints to explore. So much new material!
I think, personally, it would be scary in the best
way. That fear we're supposed to follow because it's new to us. I want you to
succeed, PK, because I’m a selfish bitch.
PETER: Haha!
Thank you. I'll take that!
PAM: And because I love improvisation.
PETER: I started playing with an all Asian improv team
– Stir-Friday Night - and
it’s been really great to explore the possibilities of what we can say onstage.
PAM: That name made me laugh out loud. Did this team form during the
Bob Curry program?
 |
| Stir-Friday Night |
PETER: No, it’s been around since 1995 with alums like Dani
Pudi, Steve Yeun from Walking Dead,
Mary Sohn…
PAM: Oh,
cool. I've seen African-American and Latino teams, but never an all-Asian team.
I need to see a show.
PETER: We do shows around the city and at festivals.
PAM: I will
look for Stir-Friday Night, for sure. I need to see that, and I'd love to write about it
afterwards.
I would imagine that just by bonding as a group with that team and the Bob Curry fellows, there may hopefully be a tendency to bring each other up as opportunities arise in the future. There is supposedly an Amy Poehler quote that Brian Stack (from Conan) has used when giving career advice in comedy, "Don't expect to own anything or make any money for years, but if you're talented and you don't give up, sooner or later one of your friends will give you a job."
I would imagine that just by bonding as a group with that team and the Bob Curry fellows, there may hopefully be a tendency to bring each other up as opportunities arise in the future. There is supposedly an Amy Poehler quote that Brian Stack (from Conan) has used when giving career advice in comedy, "Don't expect to own anything or make any money for years, but if you're talented and you don't give up, sooner or later one of your friends will give you a job."
PETER: For sure. We had a showcase last week with no
white people and it was the best show I've ever been part of. I’d hire any of
the Bob Curry Fellows in a heartbeat. They're all a super talented, ambitious, hard-working
group of comedians. I mean, what more can you ask for?
PAM: Exactly. Do you
think it’s necessary for every improv theater to have a diversity program right
now?
PETER: YES. It's imperative. It starts at the ground
floor. There needs to be more actors, playwrights, directors, etc.
PAM: This
might be an unfairly difficult question, but in your opinion what are the top
elements each theater's diversity program should have? Would it look like the
Bob Curry Fellowship but applied to that particular theater?
PETER: I think every theater can take a page out of
the Bob Curry Fellowship.
Above
all else, they should foster a sense of community and home where diverse voices
can flourish. Classes, shows, mentoring, all of it … but what they need is
directors and producers that actually get it. It's not enough to have a program
because you’re supposed to have it.
 |
| Peter S. Kim Stand-up comedian. Stand-up guy. |
Andrew
Alexander noticed after the L.A. riots that his resident stages didn’t have the
right people to effectively talk about what was going on in our world, thus he initiated
the Diversity program. The L.A. riots were in 1992! Twenty-two years later, we
have the Bob Curry program. It's a slow process, but as long as the leadership
at theaters are dedicated to changing the paradigm, it can be done.
PAM: There
are so many different facets of diversity we need in comedy (and everywhere
else): skin color, gender, age, sexual orientation, religion... I've never
played with a transgendered person – that would be cool. I'd love to play with
more people my age at comedy theaters. More moms. All different types of
people! It must be overwhelming for theater management to get their hands
around the issue.
PETER: Absolutely. It's a huge undertaking, but the first
step is to notice that there needs to be a change and start implementing it
step by step.
PAM: One of
the reasons I wanted to talk to you, Peter, was to get your view of one
possible blueprint that one theater is doing successfully. So I'm grateful to
you for helping get the word out there where people can start to take notice.
PETER: I’m
glad I can speak to it, and I do think this issue is being dealt with in a
smart, effective way at Second City.
PAM: You’re
also part of the Second City’s show Urban Twist. I
guess a multi-cultural house team is another possibility for a theater that's
interested in building diversity into their infrastructure. How is this
fellowship different than your experience with that show?
PETER: Urban Twist is a process that mimics a TourCo process at Second
City. I've been lucky to work with an amazing director, Anthony LeBlanc, who
encouraged us to bring our unique voices and updates to classic Second City
scenes. It's a great way to get your reps in the building with a ten-week show
run.
There's
not as much training per se; you're
thrown into the rehearsal, improv, and writing process starting day one. It's a
really great way to get exposure to decision makers at Second City. It complements
very nicely with the Bob Curry Fellowship.
PAM: What’s
up next for the fellows of the fellowship? Are you auditioning this summer for
the show at UP Comedy Club at
Second City?
PETER: That's a great question! We have our postmortem
interviews this Friday, which is the first time we'll get to talk to the
program heads since the culminating showcase, so the sixteen of us will find
out more about what's next then. Some of us have already been hired as understudies
for the Mainstage and are currently working on theatrical shows at UP and other
places. I plan to audition for the UP show and hopefully considered for more
gigs in and out of the building.
* * *
 | |
| Stranger (Brian Byrne, Peter S. Kim, Stephanie Anderson, Brian Holden, T.C. Matherne III. Not pictured: Alex Bellisle.) |
If you’d like to see Peter S. Kim perform, you can
catch him with Big Judy
at iO, with Duckling at
Playground, with his independent team Stranger at Lincoln Lofts, Urban Twist
at Second City, as well as open mic nights around Chicago. Peter also will be
appearing in the play Half Price
Cosmos, directed by Antoine McKay, which goes up at the Athenaeum Theatre
in Chicago on July 26 – August 24, 2014. In cyberspace, Peter can be found on Twitter and Tumblr.
Currently, Peter is writing a
web-series based on his experiences as a hopeless romantic looking for love on
Grindr.
And a
personal note …
Congratulations
to Second City
for a stellar debut of the groundbreaking Bob Curry Fellowship
program!
And special congratulations to all the 2014 Bob Curry fellows:
Damian White
Patrick Rowland
Shantira Jackson
Saliha Muttalib
Ali Barthwell
Dewayne Perkins
Lauren Malara
Torian Miller
Niccole Thurman
Samantha Bailey
Travis Turner
Lisa Beasley
Kimberly Michelle Vaughn
Rashawn Nadine Scott
Chucho Perez
and, of course,
Peter S. Kim
 |
| The 2014 Bob Curry Fellows and their teachers [Photo credit Anjelica Diaz, courtesy of Second City] |
Catch up on past improv geek-a-thons:
Geeking Out with…TJ Jagodowski of TJ and Dave
...Scott Adsit of 30 Rock
Geeking Out with…TJ Jagodowski of TJ and Dave
...Scott Adsit of 30 Rock
...David Razowsky of iO West
...Charna Halpern, co-founder of iO Theatre
in which she says,
"And maybe, just maybe, because no one has told me I'm WRONG in a very long time, they think I'm RIGHT; when in fact, I'm just making sure to have more fun than anyone in the whole wide world. And that shit's contagious, and then I'm so grateful they get my gig and we're all happy."
If you like groovy stuff, you might enjoy
The Zen of Improv series,
which contemplates improvisation and
mind-expanding ideas like non-judgment, joy, and curiosity.
The Zen of Improv series,
which contemplates improvisation and
mind-expanding ideas like non-judgment, joy, and curiosity.
Pam Victor is an improv comedian, author, journalist, teacher, and nice person. TJ Jagodowski, David Pasquesi, and Pam are the co-authors of "Improvisation at the Speed of Life: The TJ and Dave Book." Currently, Pam teaches "The Zen of Improv" to the best students in the world, as well as bringing the power of improvisation to the workplace in her "Through Laughter" program.
All her stuff is at www.pamvictor.com.
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