By Pam Victor
[“Geeking Out with…” is a series of interviews with well-known, highly experienced improvisers. It’s a chance to talk about stuff that might interest hardcore, improv dorkwads like Pam. The series can be found in full frontal geek out version on My Nephew is a Poodle and in pithier version on the Women in Comedy Festival blog. For behind-the-scenes action, ‘like’ the “Geeking Out with…” Facebook page.]
[“Geeking Out with…” is a series of interviews with well-known, highly experienced improvisers. It’s a chance to talk about stuff that might interest hardcore, improv dorkwads like Pam. The series can be found in full frontal geek out version on My Nephew is a Poodle and in pithier version on the Women in Comedy Festival blog. For behind-the-scenes action, ‘like’ the “Geeking Out with…” Facebook page.]
***
Over 120 sweaty and nervous improv students crammed
into the Cabaret at Chicago’s iO Theatre in
the summer of 2012, most of us acutely conscious that we were nestled in the womb
of improvisational comic theater as seeded by Del Close and delivered by Charna
Halpern. Our instructors for the summer lined the back wall of the stage as the
sigh-inducing smell of Chicago pizza improbably topped with mac and cheese held
promises of free lunch. We were waiting for Charna Halpern herself. I settled
in cozily. I would have waited all day and night.
Suddenly, a palpable rustle of energy washed over the
room. Like leading members of a royal procession, two large dogs bounded
through the audience and onto the stage. From the sound booth came the theme from Rocky. At iO Theatre this could only mean one thing: Charna Halpern was in the house.
Bursting onto the stage, she ran down the line of teachers, greeting each one
with a punch in the gut. "That's how I treat my people," she announced as she dramatically turned to us, held her arms above
her head and triumphantly flipped us the bird with both hands with a booming, "Fuck you!" Then softening slightly as she opened her arms with a diva
flourish, she intoned theatrically, “Welcome to my home!”
For the next five weeks, I watched her work tireless,
day and night, in the offices, classrooms, and theaters of iO. Rarely pausing.
Never stopping. As readers know, without Del Close there would be no longform
improvisation as we know it today. And I firmly believe that without Charna
Halpern, there would have been no Del Close. Genius is lost without a method of
transmission. Art dies unwitnessed without an audience. Charna Halpern gifted
improvisers with all that and more. In keeping iO Theatre running for over
thirty years – in the early days, through sheer will power alone – Charna
Halpern has delivered comedians into the world such as Chris
Farley, Tina Fey, Amy Poehler, Rachel Dratch, Adam McKay, Mike Myers...pretty
much all our improv legends, and countless others who have trained there over
the decades. Charna Halpern devotes her life to the theater, which presents the
finest longform improvisation shows today, such as TJ and Dave, Improvised
Shakespeare, Cook County Social Club, Dummy, Carl and the Passions and on and
on and on.
Queen and worker bee, both. This is Charna Halpern.
* * *
PAM
VICTOR: I don’t typically give homework to folks before they can read an
article, but for purposes of time, space, and the speed to which we can get to
the hot, juicy, geeky bits, let’s assume that readers have read both of your
books, Truth
in Comedy and Art
by Committee. Every improviser who
claims geek status should have read those books anyway. So we begin our time
together, Ms. Halpern, assuming readers have a general background of your
improv life and history. Fair enough?
CHARNA HALPERN: I assume everyone has read them.
PAM: Unless there
are some particularly evil, naughty bits of your improv history that most
people don't know and you're just dying to let loose...
CHARNA: Who knows what will come up?
PAM: Ha. Ok
then....
All that said, I ask all my partners when improv
lightening first struck for them. Improv is a calling for many of us, or as
Mark Sutton called it, an avocation. When did you fall in love with improv?
CHARNA: In the late 70s, I went to a party where I met Tim
Kazurinsky. I was not aware that it was a party of improvisers and Second City
folk. I was doing bits with Tim and some others - not knowing what bits were,
but having fun - and Tim suggested I audition for Second City. He set up an
audition for me even though I knew nothing of improvisation.
I
went to the audition and failed miserably, but I watched a show that night and
discovered that you could do this fun thing on stage. I began taking workshops
at Players Workshop of Second City and was instantly hooked. I fell in love
during the first exercise. I also remember being in a children show at Second
City. I walked into the building the first day and got this feeling that
someday this would all be mine.
PAM: Really? Is
that true? You had a premonition? (I love it.)
CHARNA: I’ve had a number of premonitions about my work. My
second big one was when David Shepherd came to town. I was in
an improv troupe. I had just read about him in Something
Wonderful Right Away by Jeffrey Sweet. David was in town auditioning folks
for an improvised play he was working on. I wasn’t going to go to the audition
because I was very busy in my children’s show.
On
the way home on the highway, I remembered he talked about this competition he
tried to do in Canada called ImprovOlympic, but that it hadn’t really gotten
off the ground. I thought about my improv troupe, and Dan Castellaneta’s improv
troupe, and Frank
Farrell’s Free Shakespeare troupe,
and I said, "I can do this ImprovOlympic thing. I’M GOING TO RUN
IMPROVOLYMPIC.” I got off the cloverleaf, and headed downtown to meet David Shepherd.
And the rest is history.
PAM: It's
interesting how our sixth senses speak to us. But it takes a confident person
to trust her intuition.
CHARNA: Intuition is important. Listen to the inner voice.
Oooga booga!
I
also got the role of God in his play, a modern version of Jonah and The Whale.
PAM: A role
written for you.
CHARNA: Yes, I was thrilled to be God until I found out it
was just a voiceover part and I never got to appear on stage.
PAM: I just
interviewed David Razowsky, so my head is very much in the intuition space.
CHARNA: I think most improvisers follow some spiritual
belief. Improv is so spiritual. It leads you, and we learn to live our lives
through many of those tenets.
PAM: Absolutely!
CHARNA: Like the things that happen are always more
interesting than the things you plan.
PAM: Lately,
I've taken to turning to improv tenets when I have a personal problem.
CHARNA: I do too. Like buying this new building that iO will
move to. It’s very scary, but I have to trust and take the risk.
PAM: Yes, the
new building. I'm very curious! Over the summer, while I was at the intensive,
you announced you purchased a space...did you take that leap of faith? Had the
psychic mentioned anything about this event?
CHARNA: Yes, I took the leap of faith. The process is hell,
but I’m doing it. And yes, the psychic did seem to know about the stressful,
expensive project, and she said it will be a huge success. Let’s hope she is
really psychic.
CHARNA: It’s in Lincoln Park on Kingsbury; basically North
and Sheffield, just south of North across from Whole Foods. It’s a cool area
and lots of new things are also being built around there. It’s right near Weed
Street and close enough to Second City that folks will want to zoom down the
block and hang out in the outdoor Beer Garden on warm summer nights.
PAM: What do you
have planned for the additional stages and spaces?
CHARNA: There will be improv, sketch, everything - maybe
even standup. There will be more opportunities for longer runs as I’ll have
more space for my current shows.
PAM: I hear TJ and Dave will have their own cabaret
theater. How is that going to work? Is it wholly independent of iO, or do you
have say on what they produce?
CHARNA: Yes, TJ and Dave will have their own theater. There
are four theaters total, and one will be theirs to do all kinds of cool things.
But they will be independent and produce their own shows. The theater will be
for their use only.
PAM: That is so
cool! One step closer to David's plan for world domination.
CHARNA: I’m willing to share the world with him.
PAM: Can we take
a moment to talk about how much we love that show?
CHARNA: They are brilliant. Dave has been performing at my
theater since the late 80s. His team Baron’s Barracudas was my first Harold
team. And I’m proud to call him my friend as well.
PAM: What do you
personally think makes their show so special?
CHARNA: The show is smart and thoughtful and slow. That was
Del’s teaching, slow comedy. It’s worth waiting for when there is real thinking
on stage.
Wow.
I wrote the answer before I saw the question.
PAM: I know!
That happens a lot with my series. Group mind is a beautiful thing
CHARNA: Not to mention that they are the two funniest men in
North America.
PAM: Amen. And
yet...they are not trying to be funny.
CHARNA: Trying to be funny never works. That’s the first
thing I tell my students.
PAM: I think
some people would be surprised to hear you have taken people off teams for
trying to be funny. (Though people who work at iO would not be surprised at
all.) Even David Razowsky, who suffered that fate early in his career at iO,
told me, “It’s
a good practice.” Can you talk about that practice of taking people off
teams for trying to be funny?
CHARNA: Dave Razowsky was taken off a team? So long ago I
can’t remember.
Well,
there is a difference between being funny and making jokes. If you are trying
to be funny, you aren’t really "in it." You’ve stepped out of the
moment. The humor comes from the reality of the scene, the tension of the
scene. When you are committing to the reality of the situation, the humor will
come from there. If you are being jokey, there is no scene.
Sometimes
it’s hard for me as a producer because I’ll see some very funny people making
jokes about a scene on stage. But nothing is really happening. And they get
confused because the audience may still be laughing, so they think they are
doing great. But they are being misled because they aren’t being true to the work.
I want my shows to be funny. I don’t pretend I don’t. But when it’s all smoke
and no fire, it’s just not interesting.
And
we can’t always be funny, but we can at least be interesting. And we will be
interesting if we are recreating slices of real life on stage.
PAM: I recently
have been struggling with illustrating the difference between being funny and
trying to be funny. For example, we try not to play broad characters, but then
you can see some very skilled players play broad characters that are real and
ground, and it works so well. It’s funny and real at the same time. Some of my
players said, "But they're playing a big character! Why can't I do
that?"
CHARNA: You can if you bring reality to that character. What’s
that person really like? Can we see a part of you in that character? Is there
some real emotion in her choices?
And
let’s face it, sometimes the commitment is to play a genre. It can be funny if
you commit to it. Anything can work if there is real commitment behind it.
PAM: From
watching great improv at iO, I have learned that if you're going to spend a
little time in a show being a bit jokey, you have to EARN it first by provided
real characters and grounded scene work. I think iO does a truly amazing job at
teaching that, at least in my experience.
CHARNA: Thanks. I think that’s what separates us from the
others. We aren’t campy. That’s not the iO style – the, “Wink wink, we are
doing a scene.” Del inspired us to create real art, and I try to pass those
ideas down. Real people are interesting. You are interesting. I am interesting.
We have something to say up there. Otherwise we shouldn’t be up there.
PAM: I think
people laugh for many reasons. Where do you think the humor in improvisation
comes from? The commitment? The truth?
The book (I got the photo in.) (And the link.) |
We
love to see how players handle themselves when they are on the spot too.
Sometimes just playing the mistake is funny. Often times playing the mistake is
funny, as a matter of fact.
PAM: Personally,
I'm in this weird little phase as a developing improviser when people might be
laughing, but I have no f'n idea what I just did to get them to laugh. I find
it incredibly freeing. I can't wait for the next opportunity for it to
happen...but I have no control over when it will be! It's like you have to stop
trying for improvisation to work its magic.
CHARNA: AH, THE MYSTERY LAUGH!!! Yep. No explanation for it.
It happens a lot.
PAM: I looove
it. I think it's that commitment and truth thing.
CHARNA: Just accept it. Don’t look around with a perplexed
face like, “What’s so funny?” The magic is there and who knows what’s affecting
your audience. It could be a reaction something honest in the moment. It’s
grand.
PAM: It IS
grand. Back to playing the mistake, I'm interested what you mean by that. Is that
a different version of the game of the scene?
CHARNA: Sometimes a newer player will think they know what’s going to happen,
and what they consider a mistake will happen. And they ignore it. That’s the
wrong thing to do. Play with the mistake. We see it. It can’t be ignored.
The Baron's Barracudas Left to right: David Pasquesi, Steve Burrows, Brian Crane, Bill Russell, John Judd, Honor Finnegan Middle: Kim Howard Johnson and Judy Nielsen |
CHARNA: Yes, that’s what I’m talking about. What I’m trying to
say is everything gets used. Everything is heard. THE MASTER WASTES NOTHING.
PAM: Those
Improvised Shakespeare folks. Ooooh boy. They take improv to a whole new
dimension. What do you think would Del have thought of them?
CHARNA: He would have loved them.
PAM: They are
the smartest of the smart.
While I was at the summer intensive, my husband came
to visit. I took him to an Improvised Shakespeare show. As we were walking in,
my dear man said, "You could do this show, Pam. I've seen you improvise
Shakespeare stuff in short form games. You could totally do this."
I said, "Just watch. Talk to me in an
hour."
At intermission, he turns to me and says, "Yeah.
Now I see what you mean."
CHARNA: Amazing work. And they have to transcribe their lines
to the Elizabethan language while keeping the timing. And when they improvise
sonnets and are still funny......it’s just too good to be true. The show used
to be at my theater in LA many years ago with Blaine
[Swen, creator and director of The Improvised Shakespeare Company.] Then
one day, he was in Chicago and said, "Hey, I moved. Want me to do that
here?” I couldn’t believe it. What a lucky day that was.
PAM: I couldn't
do what they do. But I'm deeply grateful they can!
CHARNA: I’d love to try. I love Shakespeare. But woman can’t
play.
PAM: Really???!
CHARNA: Yep. They are being true to Shakespeare.
PAM: Fuck that.
(Sorry. The Smithie in me popped out.)
CHARNA: Well, I guess there were no women in his plays. Men
played women.
PAM: Yeah, but
not anymore. I've seen them rap in Shakespearean verse, and the Bard never
rapped. (They were brilliant by the way.)
CHARNA: I’d complain if they didn’t play such great women,
but I don’t think I’ll touch that show.
PAM: Yeah, no.
Don't touch it. It's a miracle.
CHARNA: My favorite one was, "The Bar Mitzvah." Never
laughed so hard in my life. Painful laughter.
PAM: And you
have them in a prime slot on Friday nights. Audiences come in off the street -
pack the house - to see them improvise Shakespeare, which is pretty amazing
when you think about it.
CHARNA: 8:00 and 10:30pm every Friday night.
PAM: I am amazed
that this smart a show is packing them in. And I am grateful to you for seeing
that potential and providing smart comedy for people off the street. That leads
to my next question...
I produce a
comedy show in a small town in western Massachusetts, and I spend a good
amount of time on figuring out how best get people in the seats. Lately, I’ve
been pondering how best to maintain the balance between giving people what they
want – yuckity yucks - and producing grounded, real longform. I secretly
suspect the audience actually would prefer that we do a live version of Whose Line is it Anyway? (Not that there’s anything wrong with that.) However we, as
improvisers, would prefer performing beautiful, iO-style longform. It’s like
we’ve had to educate our audience. What’s your taking on maintaining that
balance?
CHARNA: You’re right. You have to educate your audience.
What do they know?
I
had the same problem. There was no long form before Del and I started doing it.
The audience didn’t know what the hell they were watching. And for a long
while, our performers outnumbered the audience.
But
the craze slowly caught on. You can do a Harold and throw in a couple games to
keep them happy. Then they will soon realize that they like the long form
better than the games, which are just a quick joke as opposed to a longer piece
where scenes connect and take on more meaning and ideas weave together. Then
they realize they are watching great players who are listening and remembering
each other’s ideas and reconnecting them. They will appreciate that more.
PAM: In
his interview with me, TJ Jagodowski said, “iO teaches you how to make
fire. Annoyance teaches you how to make it flame thrower. And then ideally
Second City teaches you where to point it.” Personally, as a former dancer, I
see it as iO being ballet, a foundation upon which everything else is built.
How do you see the value of an iO education in the context of the greater
improv community?
CHARNA: I like your metaphor. I think we are a strong
foundation. We can make a performer so strong that he is capable of doing
anything, creating a play through improvisation, a musical, inventing their own
form, learning how to make a character real, and taking on the task at Second
City of creating a show and making it fresh each night. Everyone in the
community has something to offer. Annoyance has a different style, but there
are folks who take to their style and some who take to mine. There is room for
everyone.
PAM: I just
realized that I have an opportunity I can't pass up to talk about an issue
about improvising as a woman over 40 (as I am) with in expert. So pardon me,
but I'm going to be selfish (and very, very vulnerable) for a minute....
I
guess I'm perimenopausal, which is humiliating to admit in a field when youth,
and often maleness, is a prized quality. I like being my age - and my gender
for that matter - and I think I bring a unique quality to the work. But I can't
remember all the little details as well, and it's driving me f'n crazy! I want
to be brilliant and remember everything and use it all...but my wee brain...I'm
just not as sharp. I hear it comes back in a few years. But I'm trying to
figure out ways around this issue because it scares the crap out of me.
CHARNA: Its very scary, and it gets worse before it comes
back. I can’t remember names very well and sometimes I grasp for words. That’s
why I don’t do monologues anymore for Armando.
I know what I want to say, but I can’t grasp the word. It sucks.
I
usually love older people because they have some life experience to bring to a
scene. I think that has to be your mission. You may not be the one who will do
the callbacks, but at least give them an interesting character who really has
some life lessons to share. I think you’ll be able to see when things connect
anyway. It will just be the vocabulary issue.
PAM: The beauty
of improv is that in the moment when things are working well, I can remember a
lot. I'm a good global thinker.
CHARNA: Keep reading. Do crossword puzzles. Stay sharp.
PAM: Yeah, I
play online word games a lot. Thank you.
Back to iO's style, of which I am a very big fan. How
would you sum up iO's philosophy?
CHARNA: In Del’s words, "If we treat each other as if
we are geniuses, poets and artists, we have a better chance of becoming that on
stage." I love this philosophy. I think iO makes better people because
that philosophy of taking care of each other and making each other look good
forms bonds that last on and off the stage. We make better people. And create
friendships that last a long time.
PAM: Dangnabbit,
Charna. You anticipated another question! I was just about to ask, “How do you
interpret Del's ‘geniuses, poets, and artists’ quote. I love it, and I use it
all the time.”
CHARNA: We are connected.
* *
*
Take a peek at “Geeking Out with…Charna Halpern (PartTwo)”
in which Charna gives me an important lesson about being judgmental on stage.
in which Charna gives me an important lesson about being judgmental on stage.
In the meantime, check out “Geeking
Out with…Dave Pasquesi”
in which Dave says,
“Improvisation is itself an exercise in faith. In faith of Improvisation.
That if I do the next tiny thing, all will be fine.”
in which Dave says,
“Improvisation is itself an exercise in faith. In faith of Improvisation.
That if I do the next tiny thing, all will be fine.”
Catch up on past improv geek-a-thons:
…with Joe Bill of BASSPROV
…Jimmy Carrane of the Improv Nerd podcast
…Susan Messing of Messing with a Friend
and many more!
And "like" the "Geeking Out with..." FACEBOOK PAGE please.
Pam Victor is the founding member of The Ha-Ha’s, and she produces The Happier Valley Comedy Show in western Massachusetts. Pam directs, produces and performs in the comic soap opera web series "Silent H, Deadly H". Pam also writes mostly humorous, mostly true essays and reviews of books, movies, and tea on her blog, "My Nephew is a Poodle." If you want to stay abreast of all the geek out action, like the “Geeking Out with…” Facebook page!
From Michael Golding:
ReplyDelete"Great interview, with one historical inaccuracy. The Improv Olympics was successful in Canada. First, in 1974 at the Homemade Theatre in Toronto, where David Shepherd developed Time Dash, Space Jump and various other events. In 1977 it morphed into the Canadian Improv Games (originally called the Canadian Improv Olympics until the Olympic committee reared its ugly head). The program is about to enter its 36th year, involving over 300 high schools nation-wide, with a week-long festival at the National Arts Centre in Ottawa in late March."