[“Geeking
Out with…” is a series of interviews with well-known, highly experienced
improvisers. It’s a chance to talk about stuff that might interest hardcore,
improv dorkwads like Pam. The series can be found in full frontal geek out
version on My Nephew is a Poodle and in pithier
version on the Women in Comedy Festival blog. For behind-the-scenes action, ‘like’ the “Geeking Out with…” Facebook
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Ask any longtime
improviser worth her salt to name the top five improvisers in the world, and I
would put good money on David Pasquesi’s name being on the list. Even if you
winnow it down to the top two, I’ll still keep my money on Dave being one of
them (and his partner TJ Jagodowski being the other.) The first time I saw TJ
and Dave’s show, I could hear an almost audible whoosh as my improv bar was
raised high, far higher than I imagined it could go. Hours after seeing their
show, and still thick in my elation, I was chatting with
improv-legend-in-his-own-right, Joe Bill.
“Are your cheeks still
flushed?” Joe asked me.
Amazed, I answered,
“Yes, they are. How did you know?”
"Yeah," Joe replied
blithely. "They do that.”
Toss a stick in David
Pasquesi’s direction and you’ll surely hit a plethora of accolades, admiration
and respect from audience members, critics, and, most fervently of all, fellow
improvisers. This dude has gravitas. Because he excels at establishing patterns, he might pick up the stick and
chuck it back at you, so be ready for that too. Was I intimidated interviewing
David Pasquesi? Yes, I was absolutely quaking in my Birkenstocks. Did he
immediately put me at ease with his kindness and generosity? Yeah. Yeah, he
did.
David Pasquesi |
David Pasquesi has
achieved an impressive array of film, television, and theater accomplishments. To
name but a few: He was given the Joseph Jefferson Award for Actor
in a Revue for "The Gods Must Be
Lazy" at the Second City Theatre. He was shot fatally in Angels & Demons under the direction of Ron Howard.
He and TJ won Improviser of the Year
at the 2006 Chicago Improv Festival. And in his early days in improv, he landed
a spot on Del Close’s very first Harold team, the highly lauded Baron’s
Barracudas. He has performed with TJ
Jagodowsi in their award-winning, critically acclaimed show TJ and Dave since 2002, and if you haven’t seen their documentary Trust Us, This is All Made Up, please do so immediately. Seriously. Right
now. It’s on Netflix. This article can wait while you add it to the top of your
queue. (In two hours you’ll thank me, so I’ll say it now: You’re welcome.)
***
PAM VICTOR: Do you prefer
to be called Dave or David? I don’t want to make assumptions and call you Dave
before we’re ready to get to that next step.
DAVE PASQUESI: No preference. I answer to either. I'll
know who you mean.
PAM: You can call me Pam,
but I also answer to Lola.
DAVE: Nice.
PAM: So I hear we, your
fans, have a bit of serendipity and Joel
Murray to thank for getting you
into improv. Is that true? Can you tell a little of the story of your
introduction to improv?
DAVE: My first
introduction to improvisation was when my brother went to an improv class while
he was attending law school. My mother almost insisted I accompany him. I was
in about my third year of college.
I had never been on stage before. I went to this class -
tagging along without registering. Lo and behold, the class was full. But the teacher, Judy
Morgan, allowed me to stay. I really liked it from the start. Though I was
going to Loyola, my focus switched to improv. Then I read the book "Something
Wonderful Right Away," by Jeffrey Sweet, and I found that Judy Morgan,
my teacher, was in the book. She was in the cast at Second City with Ramis,
Flaherty, John Belushi and Brian Murray…She was a great teacher.
PAM: Judy Morgan's class
was at The Player's Workshop?
DAVE: Exactly. Jo
Forsberg's place. Then, at the end of the workshops, you got to do a show on
the Mainstage at Second City....on a
Sunday afternoon.
PAM: Woah. Was that a
huge deal for you?
DAVE: It was for me. I had never been to a
show at Second City, but I had heard about it from my parents for my entire
life.
Then, the next year, I went to school in Rome. That's where I
met Joel, actually on the plane over, and we became roommates.
PAM: Your parents were
interested in improv?
DAVE: No. They
just admired Second City.
PAM: So you grew up
watching SNL?
DAVE: I was 14
when it started. I remember a buddy in my neighborhood telling me about these
"Not Ready for Primetime Players." I was a Python fan, and he said
that I'd like these guys just as much.
PAM: Ah, a Python fan…
DAVE: Yes.
Python, Marx brothers, Carson.
PAM: Favorite Python
sketch?
DAVE: Silly walks.
PAM: I was just thinking
that one! That's so weird.
Was love at first
sight, with you and improv at that first class? What do you think about the art
form struck a chord in you at that time?
DAVE: I'm not
sure. It was kind of love at first sight. I sure appreciated that you kind of
can't be "wrong." I know that later on, when I started to spend more
time at it, I loved the hippy ideas of agreement and the power of the group and
stuff like that.
PAM: So you take the
class, start to love improv, and then you're on a plane to Rome...and
coincidentally you sit next to Bill Murray's brother?
DAVE: Yeah. Not
even sit next to. He walked by with a book, Hunter S. Thompson's "Great
Shark Hunt." I was/am a fan, so I said so. Then we started drinking on the
plane….we started hanging out in Rome, running around, traveling together. We
did a talent show at the school in Rome, and occasionally we begged on the
street where Joel would sing and I'd juggle. He has a good voice.
Joel Murray actor and Roman sidewalk singer |
PAM: What effect did your
friendship with Joel have on your desire to do more improv (if any)?
DAVE: Well, we
both kind of joked about wanting to work at Second City.
PAM: Joked? You didn’t
think it could happen?
DAVE: It still
didn't really seem to be an actual possibility, just a silly pipe dream.
PAM: Right. I hear that.
DAVE: (Still
doesn't.)
PAM: Ha! No way. Really?
DAVE: Honestly. I
get to do stuff and I think as it’s happening, "This kind of stuff doesn't
happen," like traveling to do slow, long-form improvisation.
PAM: That's one helluva
pipe dream you're having there, Mr. Pasquesi. (If you answer to that name.)
DAVE: Who are you
addressing?
PAM: Lol.
It is quite amazing
you get to take the show on the road. I really feel like you are longform
ambassadors to the world for us. Maybe you’ll go out there into the loud, busy
world, and teach people about the joys of watching slow longform…maybe even
pave the way for new opportunities for the rest of us. Is that just my sick
fantasy to get the rest of the world hooked on my drug of choice?
DAVE: I like it.
PAM: Me too. Thanks for
doing it.
Ok, so you and Joel
have your drunken, juggling misadventures in Rome...then did you come home to
study more improv?
DAVE: Not
immediately. I finished school, still thinking that I needed something else for
a career.
PAM: Trying to parlay
that philosophy degree into something lucrative?
DAVE: Oh
yeah...open up a little philosophy shop.
PAM: Like Lucy in Peanuts. A little stand with a sidekick dog making
snarky comments? But how many times can you answer, "What is the meaning
of life?" and "Why is the sky blue?" It would get boring.
DAVE: Wasn't Lucy
a psychiatrist?
PAM: Yes. Obviously, you
would have to change the sign.
DAVE: lol.
(I just said 'lol.')
PAM: Hahaha!
DAVE: I'm ashamed
of myself. I know what I am going to want to edit [out of the interview].
PAM: Hahaha. No way. That's
staying in.
DAVE: Well, it’s
true. I did "L" and it was "OL."
PAM: Ha. (I am
sitting on a big ball right now, so if you make me laugh really hard, I could
easily be ROTFL.)
Ok. After your misguided attempt to make money, I assume you turned back to your one true love? Where did you get your improv training?
Ok. After your misguided attempt to make money, I assume you turned back to your one true love? Where did you get your improv training?
DAVE: Ok, so....I
tried to work in the actual world. And it was a great job, buying and managing
commercial real estate for this small group of investors. It was a great
job....for someone who wanted to do that. Turns out, I did not want to.
Then I was all set to go to Kellogg Business School at Northwestern.
I had been accepted, but hadn't yet registered when I made a drastic decision.
I moved onto a buddy's floor (a mutual friend of Joel and mine who we also went
to school with in Rome), and worked for him as a laborer - he was a contractor
-and started going with Joel to Del's classes.
PAM: You'd explored
philosophy, comedy and hard labor, all before the age of 25.
DAVE: I was a
cowboy on a sheep ranch in there too, between college and real estate. I also
worked construction when I got kicked out of college. The stone masons were all
Italians (from Italy).
PAM: A cowboy???? Wait.
Kicked out? For what?
DAVE: I was
"invited to not return."
PAM: Too much partying?
DAVE: Yep. It was
a little Lutheran school in Minnesota. I was not a good fit for them.
PAM: That was before
Loyola?
DAVE: Yes.
PAM: I'm sorry, I'm
sitting here trying to imagine you on a horse, lassoing a calf...
DAVE: Sheep ranch.
PAM: Oh shit. Right. A
lamb then. [Yes, dear readers, I just displayed horrifyingly bad “listening”
skills in an interview with David Pasquesi. I’m deeply ashamed.]
DAVE: 88,000
acres in southwest New Mexico.
PAM: You were sitting
around a fire, chewing on a stick, and thinking, "I wish I knew how to quit
you, improv."
Speaking of which,
back to improv - like a dog with a bone, I am - Do you consider iO to be your first, real training grounds? In
so much of the publicity material, I see Second City credited as where you
originate, and I always wonder if that pisses off Charna.
DAVE: Besides
Players Workshop, the only place I ever really studied was with Del,
absolutely. Del taught me all that I know and more than I'll
remember.
PAM: From what I've read
and heard of the man, I feel like he would be really proud of the work you and
TJ do.
DAVE: Nice of you
to say.
PAM: I was just thinking
this morning about how the last bastion of players directly trained by Del
Close are being pushed out of the way by the next layer of improvisers - I mean
in the big picture, the mass consumed improv world - and I worry how this will
change improv, how it's taught and performed.
DAVE: Wait...you
mean teachers and such?
PAM: Yes. There are folks
who are now teaching who were not directly taught by Del.
DAVE: Most. Almost
all. But I was in classes with guys for years. I go to their classes and I hear
them say, "Del said...." And I NEVER heard [Del say] that, and I am
sure he would never have said that.
PAM: I mean the
attributes Del promoted may not be taught as forcefully today.
DAVE: Or even
known. ABSOLUTELY. That's what I've been doing with TJ for the last ten years, the
exact same stuff that I believe Del was suggesting.
PAM: Exactly. Exactly
what I mean. And when I think of 90% of the improv out there being taught right
now, I don't see it following the same value system. Again, this is why I elect
you our ambassador.
So talk about that.
Talk about the stuffy Del was suggesting please.
(Oops! I mean “stuff”
NOT "stuffy. lol.)
DAVE: This is only my interpretation of what Del
was promoting....
PAM: Naturally.
DAVE: (I did not
L OL at stuffy. I'm not that easy.)
PAM: (I did.) (I am.)
What are a couple
major influences, things that you've learned from Del that still influence your
work today?
DAVE: Playing
slowly, not worrying about the audience, not worrying that they are being
entertained. Top of your intelligence. Characters played as a thin veil. Honestly
responding only to the scene and other player.
PAM: Ok. I don't think
you know what an improv ho' I am. That was like manna. I want more. Please talk
more about all of that.
Let's start with
playing slowly and about the pacing of TJ and Dave. It’s luxuriously steady, unrushed, and utterly sure. The imagery that
your show evokes for me is of you languidly reaching out into the air to set a
real teacup on an imaginary table; and just as the cup is released, a table
appears. Does that make sense?
TJ and Dave |
DAVE: Awfully
nice of you.
PAM: Nice or not, it's
true.
DAVE: No need to
rush. There is no destination to get to, no punchline to arrive at, not even
any story to tell. Just unwrapping the thing bit by bit.
Del said that we're not trying for laughs; we're going for
cheers. Don't let them laugh little laughs. Let it build up.
PAM: (I just fell off my
ball in joy.)
DAVE: (Get back
on it. I learned that on the ranch.)
PAM: (LOL. Ok, I'm back
on - I always get back on the ball. I just loved all that so much.)
So this is my next
question; and it's totally related to my personal evolution, but hopefully
other people will relate. I've been exploring the slow discovery, and there is
a struggle - particularly among players who are very tied to making the
audience laugh - of what happens if the discovery doesn't lead to anything
momentous. I don't think momentous is the right word - how about interesting?
funny?
DAVE: It will.
PAM: When?
Wait. Ah, I see. You
just set the teacup out...
DAVE: Yes. If I
am following the most interesting discoveries, it will be interesting.
Now these are my beliefs. I do not suggest Del thought these
things.
PAM: Yes, I understand.
I'm interviewing you, not Del, here.
Good. Ok, how do you decide which discovery is most interesting? Which thread to follow?
Good. Ok, how do you decide which discovery is most interesting? Which thread to follow?
DAVE: Improvisation
is itself an exercise in faith. In faith of Improvisation. That if I do the
next tiny thing, all will be fine.
PAM: Amen. (I've never gotten
teary during an interview. I'm such a fucking dork.)
DAVE: And following
the fear is exactly that. Follow the most interesting thing - maybe untraveled,
uncomfortable - because I don't have anything funny to say about it, so that is
scary...
PAM: Uh, yeah it is. But
that’s where the higher power is.
DAVE: …but I'm
supposed to do it anyway. Be afraid, but do it anyway. “Follow the fear” does
not suggest anything about not being
afraid. It requires it. TJ and I rehearse to find out that very thing for us.
PAM: Can you expound further on the idea of "following your fears" as a way to best discover the most interesting thread to follow? I specifically am curious on how best an improviser, such as myself, can use this guidepost to lead to the more theatrically and comically interesting discoveries on stage.
PAM: Can you expound further on the idea of "following your fears" as a way to best discover the most interesting thread to follow? I specifically am curious on how best an improviser, such as myself, can use this guidepost to lead to the more theatrically and comically interesting discoveries on stage.
DAVE: The phrase from Del is "follow the fear." It comes from a principle to keep in mind for a good/interesting scene. It means (at least to me) that I am to go toward the things that I would ordinarily go away from, i.e. uncomfortable topics, perhaps unpopular but honest responses. Not only shocking stuff, but also kindness and empathy.
In real life, we sometimes guard ourselves with less-than-true responses. We can afford to be honest on stage. Afford to be afraid. Afford to be unlikable. Afford to be sweet.
"Follow the fear" is a guide to lead the direction of a scene. Is this frightening? Yes? Then this is the right direction.
In real life, we sometimes guard ourselves with less-than-true responses. We can afford to be honest on stage. Afford to be afraid. Afford to be unlikable. Afford to be sweet.
"Follow the fear" is a guide to lead the direction of a scene. Is this frightening? Yes? Then this is the right direction.
PAM: Where is the fear for
you?
DAVE: The brand
new is frightening; but if you do it a while it is no longer new and not as
frightening, so it evolves.
PAM: I can't imagine you
get very fearful on stage with TJ anymore. Does that in itself scare you?
DAVE: I'm not
afraid of the same things. I'm not afraid of the show sucking. I'm not afraid
my scene partner is gonna sell me out. (The reason I'm not afraid of the show
sucking is not that I don't think we can suck, ‘cuz we do. I'm just not afraid
of it sucking.)
PAM: So what ARE you
afraid of now?
DAVE: Not gonna
tell you.
PAM: LOL. Chicken.
DAVE: Oh look, it's
11:30. [Signaling the end of our
interview.]
PAM: Hahahahaha! By the
way, you're afraid of a girl asking question while balanced on a silver ball,
cowboy. Just sayin'.
DAVE: I feel that
what I am afraid of on stage is immaterial. That I try to remain concerned is
the thing, not the specifics. Also, Del said the job of the improviser is
"to lead an interesting life, then tell people about it." I think
some improvisers forget that, that the requirement is to live life.
PAM: Good answer. Thank you, kind sir.
DAVE: Here's a
fear:
PAM: I'm listening.
DAVE: That all
this yammering of mine will make this sound too precious or "important.” It
is just make-em-ups, after all.
PAM: lol. I'm not sure what I can do to allay that fear except say who fucking cares as long as you're enjoying the yammering? (Which I am.)
Seriously, one of the
things I love about improv is that it gives you some meat to chew on and talk
about and over and under, and that is like wonderful brain candy. (Ew. Meat.
Brain. Candy.)
DAVE: Yum.
***
Please join us for “Geeking Out with…Dave Pasquesi (Part Two)”
in which we dive still deeper into Dave’s improv philosophy
as he entertains my
determination to get a peek
***
Catch up on past improv nerd-a-thons:
…Jet
Eveleth of The Reckoning,
And
"like" the "Geeking
Out with..."FACEBOOK PAGE please.
Pam Victor
is the founding member of The
Ha-Ha’s, and she
produces The
Happier Valley Comedy Shows in western
Massachusetts. Pam directs, produces and performs in the comic soap opera web
series "Silent H, Deadly H". Pam also writes mostly humorous,
mostly true essays and reviews of books, movies and tea on her blog,"My
Nephew is a Poodle." If you want to stay abreast of
all the geek out action, like the “Geeking Out with…” Facebook page!
I love David Pasquesi. But I think he should be playing romantic leads.
ReplyDeleteWow, this was a delight to read!
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